0:03 Eugene Borukhovich
Welcome to the Digital Therapeutics Edition of Digital Health Today. I’m your host Eugene Borukhovich. In the last episode, I spoke with Corey McCann, CEO and founder of Pear Therapeutics. Corey and team set out to de-risk the development of new a therapeutic class in a very methodical way; in essence, becoming the Genentech of digital therapeutics.
In this episode, I had the pleasure of getting to know Chris Wasden, head of Happify DTx. Happify, in their own words, is a global healthcare platform that combines digital therapeutics and care delivery solutions to improve mental health, physical health, and well-being. Since we recorded the episode, Happify went on to raising their next round of $73 million– congrats to the team!
But before we dive in, Chris and I have never actually met in person, though we have had a “social media relationship” for a number of years. Every time I did see Chris give a presentation, I was always impressed by his clarity and professor-like approach to educating the audience. Well, a professor he is, who has gone from Wall Street to Main Street. And now we jump to my conversation with Chris.
I’m here with Chris Wasden, the head of Happify DTx. That’s an interesting title. But I would love to hear a little bit of your history. Please introduce yourself to our listeners. How did you come to the DTx industry as a whole?
1:34 Chris Wasden
I may have one of the most circuitous paths to DTx of anyone you’ll probably ever interview. I started my career on Wall Street with JP Morgan. I was an investment banker for 10 years doing corporate finance and M&A work, then left Wall Street to go to Main Street and was the CFO of a large private company for several years. But I always had this bug to be in the start-up space.
So I met a doctor, came up with some ideas, and we began a journey to create some medical device companies. I started a couple of different companies over a 10-year timeframe. Invented Technologies got a patent, got products to the FDA, hired sales forces, raised venture capital, and I did that for many years.
Then I kind of had my fill of doing start-ups for a while, and I got hired by PwC to start and lead their strategy and innovation practice for the healthcare industry. PwC had been a consulting firm for many years, and then after the Enron debacle, they sold their consulting business to IBM. Then after the five year non-compete, they decided to come back into the market. I was hired about a month before the non-compete ended, and then we began to get back into consulting. This was in 2007, when the iPhone came out. So what I really focused on as a thought leader, as well as a consultant, for the next seven years as their global healthcare innovation leader was: how do you apply digital to the pharmaceutical industry, the medical device industry, the payer, the provider marketplaces? I did a lot of work with telecos, actually, all over the world, to help them figure out how they could deliver digital healthcare. I did that for seven years, and then got hired by the University of Utah to start and run a digital therapeutic incubator.
The University of Utah has one of the leading video game programs in the world, actually. They also have a very large and successful medical school, and then they’ve got the business school. So I brought those three elements together for this incubator to develop therapies that would improve people’s health in a number of different areas. I did that for five years.
3:50 Eugene Borukhovich
What year was that?
3:52 Chris Wasden
That was 2013. And during that time, I did some consulting work for MetLife. MetLife had asked me to find the best digital mental health company in the world. As a professor, you get five of your students to work with you on a semester-long project they get credit for, and you start looking. We looked at about 80 different companies, and as a result of that, identified Happify as the best. So I reached out to Happify, and I said, “I’m doing some consulting work. I have a client MetLife that would like to meet you and work with you. Are you interested in that?” They said yes. So I did some matchmaking, began that relationship, helped them with some projects, and then after about a year, Happify asked me if I would do consulting for them.
I did consulting with Happify for about a year to help them identify the opportunities in the pharmaceutical and healthcare industry generally. After that, they decided to hire me to lead the digital therapeutics business. So the head of Happify DTx is what I do.
4:57 Eugene Borukhovich
I just love the title of Happify DTx. It’s so much in the DNA of the company, the word “happify.” If you can describe their path to even starting Happify. What was the trigger? I actually thought that you met them through the telecom work, because I think some of the guys there did some work in Israel and others. What’s their story? Why did they get started? How?
5:22 Chris Wasden
Yeah, so they had a very successful and large video game business that they had created, where they provided a platform for video games to be developed and distributed through telecos. We didn’t know each other then, but we did have some overlap with many of the telecos they worked with and the ones that I worked with, as well.
After they got to about 16 million unique monthly users and a large business with 1000 employees, they ended up selling it and were looking for their next gig. They had actually done this calculation of how many hours of wasted time did they facilitate through their previous business. It was billions and billions of hours that people were playing these casual games. They thought, you know, if we are that good at getting people to use digital and being engaged with it, coming back to it again and again, what else could these people be doing that would be better for them than playing a video game? The conclusion was that developing and improving their mental health would be a lot better.
It became this very purpose-driven, noble pursuit to take the science of engagement and apply it to a real problem– mental health– where most patients are not diagnosed, most patients are not treated, and there’s a shortage of psychiatrists and psychologists. The only way to solve this problem at scale is through technology. So how do we take technology that we’re really good at, and apply it to a problem that requires technology, that is a global problem? That was the thesis.
The problem, obviously, was that they were video game guys. They didn’t know anything about mental health or psychology or anything else. So they began to do research and attend conferences that had these leading experts on this topic talk about this problem. One of the schools that actually has produced a lot of the science around this, as well as thought leaders, is the University of Pennsylvania. That’s where positive psychology sprang.
They found a woman who was speaking on this topic, who had got her PhD from University of Pennsylvania, her name’s Acacia Parks, and they connected. They said, you know, this technology that we’ve got could be married with the science that you’re talking about, and we could do some great stuff. That was the beginning of a beautiful relationship. Acacia is our chief scientist today. She worked as a consultant early on, but then became one of our earliest employees. The idea was, how do we take the science that we know is proven to deliver health care and mental health outcomes? And digitise it and gamify it in such a way that it’s engaging and fun to do and people complete it and get mental health improvement?
This is how we’re very different from an Akili. Akili is actually inventing new science. The mechanism of action that they’ve got has never been done before and never been proven before. We’re not inventing new science; we take science that’s already proven. CBT is a good example of that, mindfulness is another one. There have been thousands of academic papers that have been published that demonstrate that this sort of therapy works, and we just put it into a format that’s easy to consume, fun to consume, and effective in its outcomes as measured in clinical instruments, so that patients improve.
8:49 Eugene Borukhovich
I just want to mention Acacia presented a presentation in April 2019, which was super, super fascinating. I know a lot of people tuned in, and I would urge our listeners to look that up. I’ve always been fascinated with, what does a DTx look like to me? Colors, and how you design the studies around it. So that was fascinating. Kudos to the team for getting her on board.
What I’m trying to do is demystify what a DTx is to our listeners and to more regular consumers. Maybe pick the core product that you started with direct-to-consumer and walk us through what that experience is for a regular consumer/user.
9:46 Chris Wasden
To do that, let me do a compare and contrast. If you’re the average consumer/patient today, what is your experience without a Happify? And then what is your experience with a Happify?
Without a Happify, your experience is that you’ve got some anxiety, you’ve got some depression, you’re aware that this is impacting your life. You’re trying to decide what to do with it. You might go to your primary care doctor, you might buy a self-help book, you might have a psychologist that you know, or can get a referral to a psychiatrist. You’ve got to enter some part of a journey towards improvement, and then what happens is your doctor will either prescribe an SSRI or SNRI to you. Or they’ll send you to a psychologist, who will then want you to go through 12 weeks of CBT education training that will last about an hour each session and might be done on an individual basis or group basis. The plan is that through a 12-week process, you’re going to get better if you take your medication and/or if you do your psychological therapy. But it’s a pretty big commitment on your part. You’ve got to get in the car, drive there, have the hour-long session, drive back, and it’s expensive as well.
So what we did is we said, let’s take all these CBT interventions that you’re going to learn over 12 weeks, and let’s break them up into 15-minute chunks that you can complete on your own, in your own home, and use instruments to measure your progress. We can do a baseline; how depressed and anxious are you today? And then every two weeks, we can do an assessment to show you how you’re improving. We call this your happiness score. We’ve actually inverted it in such a way that a big score means you’re getting better, and 100% means you’re perfectly happy, and there’s something below that is less. But it’s easy for you as a consumer to understand.
We then serve up these activities—think of them as clinical interventions– that you will do that take between five to 15 minutes at a time. They’re just like what you would do (in some ways) with a therapist, except they’re more fun, and they’re done by yourself. One of them is “Thanks, thanks, thanks.” The academic literature has shown that people that show gratitude receive significant happiness benefit and mental health benefit by showing this gratitude. We give you an exercise to do to show gratitude to somebody else. People that keep gratitude journals are statistically and clinically happier than people who aren’t. People who start depressed and then begin to do gratitude journals become happier. This is basically the science that we’re applying here.
We have another one where it’s a game called Negative Knockout, where you pick negative words that you’re obsessed with– maybe it’s failure, lack of confidence, or lack of self-esteem, or something like that. Then you select a handful of those and have them become the pigs in a game, similar to Angry Birds; you’ve got this slingshot and knocking those negative words out of your life. Which is similar to what you do in CBT, where they’ll say take a piece of paper and write negative words that you’re obsessed with, crumple it up into a ball, and toss it in a wastepaper basket over in the corner. We take these same things that you do in an analogue world, we digitize it, we gamify it, we make it fun and interesting, and we have you do it on your own time.
What we’ve shown with our clinical trials, where we use a placebo control, is that if you use our intervention as prescribed over an eight-week period, you will have a clinically significant improvement in your mental health as measured by the PHQ-9 and GAD-7 over that eight-week period. We have a response curve that shows that you start to see benefit within two weeks. Within four weeks, you hit that inflection point and it starts to flatten out, but it continues to improve until you achieve that eight-week timeframe. The goal is to turn these into habits and behaviors, so it’s just not things that only worked when you were doing them, but they have a long-term effect because now you’ve incorporated these things into your lifestyle, and the way you live and work.
14:25 Eugene Borukhovich
It’s interesting you mentioned the word lifestyle, because to my knowledge, Happify started as more of a B2C or direct-to-consumer in the App Store. I don’t know the number of downloads, but I’m sure this was a great learning experience, so maybe you can talk a little bit on behalf of [the team] before you even joined. I think part of the reason why you joined is that evolution of the business hypothesis– right? Where’s the company going to make money, as long as you make people happy at the end of the day?
14:59 Chris Wasden
It goes back to our founders. Tomer and Ofer came from the video game industry, which is a direct consumer business, so that’s the business model they understood. Healthcare is so complicated. If you’re new to healthcare, you have no idea about payers, providers, pharma, and who pays, and how they pay, and everything. So they said, let’s start with what we know, which is a consumer, and if we make something that’s really good and really effective, consumers will pay for it. So they did that, and we got up to about 3 million users. It’s one of those models where three million is the number of downloads, but only a fraction of those people actually pay for the product.
We were on a trajectory to become a profitable business under that model, but the consumer acquisition costs are very expensive. When you buy a video game, you don’t expect your health insurance to pay for it. You don’t expect anybody pay for it– you pay for it. When it comes to healthcare, everyone always expect someone else is going to pay for this: their health plan, employer, their doctor, etc. So you end up having this barrier whenever you get into something health-related.
[Ofer and Tomer] ended up meeting with a fellow that had retired from running the specialty networks of Optum, their behavioral health and mental health businesses on a national basis. He had tens of thousands of employees that worked for him, and he was a clinical psychologist by training and background. This fellow’s name is Andy Sekel, and he had left Optum (retired, basically) and started a venture fund. He was looking for things like Happify to invest in, and when he saw Happify he said, “I’ve been waiting 20 years for someone to develop technology that could do what you guys are doing. But you’ve got the wrong business model; direct consumer is not the way to go. I worked for Optum; let me tell you how we would do it.”
That began our pivot towards a business model that would be paid for by third parties. In this case, it would be employers and health plans. He ended up investing in Happify and becoming our chairman. So now as our chairman, we have a guy who’s lived in the bowels of the beast for his entire career pretty much and knew how things worked. We began to do outreach to these health plans and the employers to provide a product offering, and we ended up getting success.
Now, success in healthcare means that you’re on a five-year journey to make meaningful money. You have to go through an RFP, then you do a pilot, then you do a small-scale implementation, then a larger one, then a larger one, and after five years, you’ve got 20 million covered lives. But you don’t ever start with 20 million covered lives; you start with a small pilot project. That’s what we did with Cigna initially, and then we went into other health plans. Now we have five of the largest health plans in the United States who are customers. We then began to do the same thing with employers. We have many large tech companies, household names, that are our customers as well.
As we were on this journey, we began to get on the radar of some of the pharma companies, because they were beginning to do a landscape analysis of the digital therapeutic space and were looking at what was popular based on downloads and who was using the product. We came up because we have very high star ratings, and we have a very high number of downloads. They would reach out to us and say, “hey, we’re doing an RFI right now and trying to figure out who the companies are. Would you come and talk to us about what you do?” We had several pharma companies say they would like to partner with us to develop products that would be useful for patients– either patients on a patient support program, or patients that could use our product as a prescription digital therapy.
This is where I came in. I began that process, which then got us also into the health systems, because then you’ve got to have physicians who are prescribing it, or at least endorsing it, and authorizing it and whatnot.
19:24 Eugene Borukhovich
It’s time for a question from my journalistic partner on this podcast, Brian Dolan, who is the founder Exits & Outcomes, and as I like to call him, the digital health detective. Let’s see what question Brian has for our guest today.
19:38 Brian Dolan
Okay, here’s my question. Happify is one of only a handful of companies that have moved into developing therapeutics, after spending years building a direct-to-consumer business. How does that D2C experience help Happify’s healthcare ambitions? And could you outline some of the challenges that come along with adding a health care business to a core D2C or wellness one?
20:02 Chris Wasden
Thanks, Brian. It’s good to chat with you. We’ve known each other for about a decade now, as we were early pioneers in the whole digital health space.
When you start as a direct consumer company with a game, you clearly don’t have the FDA-quality management systems necessary to have products that are under enforcement discretion or that can be taken for FDA clearance. So an important decision for us as we began to see that health care products are generally most successful when patients don’t pay for themselves– but their employer, health plan, doctor, or pharma company pays for them– as we began that pivot to have other people pay for products used by consumers and patients, we had to be committed to the proposition that we would develop a robust quality management system that could pass an FDA audit.
This is not a trivial exercise. This took us two years of development work, where we had to more than double the size of our software development team because of all the documentation required to meet all the FDA requirements (e.g. design history files and quality management systems that meet the GMP standards). As we were beginning to make this commitment, the question came up regarding [whether we should] have a direct consumer, lighter quality system for that business, versus the more robust system for the other things that we do. Our conclusion was that since we have one platform that serves up our products, regardless of the product and the acuity of the patient (that is, wellness all the way to prescription), we needed to have our quality management system be the same for everything we do. That was another huge commitment.
When I talk to other organisations that try to figure out what to do, they want to say [they’ve] got one quality management for wellness and one for something else. In many ways, that’s actually more complicated than saying it’s going to be one platform for everything. So that was a big decision. Once we made that decision, everything else kind of fell into place.
I would add one other thing to this, which is key. When we meet with pharma clients– especially pharma clients– we talk to them about the comorbid nature of mental health disorders with psoriasis, MS, or RA, or something like that. But they want to have a proof-of-concept pilot done that shows that we can find patients with their disease (e.g., RA), that we can activate them on our product, that they will enjoy and use our product, and that they will receive clinical benefit from our product. The only reason we’re good at that, besides the fact that our product is great, is because we’re really good at direct consumer.
I’ll give you an example. We did this one recently in migraines. In less than two weeks, we recruited over 5,000 migraine patients that downloaded our app and began using our app. When we did this, we gathered information about their migraine. How many years have you had migraines? How many migraines do you have per week? How severe are they? How long do they last? What sort of medications you use for your migraine? Your gender and all the other basic demographic information.
We were then able to show that the number one and two triggers for migraine– for the majority of these patients– are anxiety, depression, and sleep disorders. Things that we are experts at managing for patients. The primary triggers are actually tied to our core product!
Then we’re able to show that patients that used our product over time got better mental health scores, as measured by the PHQ-9 and the GAD-2 in this case, and that these patients began to experience improvement in their migraines, as a result of using our product. Because we’re the primary trigger, the mental health is the primary trigger for that.
So for a pharma company to see a proof-of-concept pilot, where we can recruit thousands of patients in a matter of days that will use our product and show benefit– not only in mental health but in the core disease– is very comforting to them and gives them confidence that if they partner with us, there’s lots of other things we can do. This was done with the Happify product out of the box. It wasn’t done by creating a customized migraine product at this point.
24:44 Eugene Borukhovich
It’s a fascinating kind of journey from D2C and the choices that you guys made along the way. I spent a couple of years in pharma, and I ask this question because I’m trying to correlate this with the leaders in the industry. Let’s talk pharma. Is it that ultimately as a mental health player, as a [clinically validated] DTx, you will swallow some pills inside? Or will pharma swallow the DTx as part of the bigger beast, for lack of a better term? I’m curious on your thoughts. You have been you’ve been trailblazing this for decades.
25:48 Chris Wasden
I’m going to try to be as diplomatic and nice as I can. Everybody has challenges, right? The reality is that pharma companies do not possess the understanding and the skills necessary to understand digital from a patient’s perspective and to develop products that are digital in nature. Could they eventually? Maybe in time, maybe not. If you look at the core business they have, which is developing drugs, you’ve got very long lead times. You make a drug and get it cleared, and that drug never changes after its approval by the FDA. As opposed to a digital product that you can create fairly quickly. For example, with our pharma relationships, we’re developing and reconfiguring our current product into a new version for them within six months. Pretty rapid development.
26:46 Eugene Borukhovich
Sometimes it takes six months to approve a purchase order in a pharma company.
26:51 Chris Wasden
Right! We’ve got a project right now with a pharma client where if we develop the product in four months, it’s going to take them three months to approve the clinical trial protocol for us to test the product. So it’s going to take as much time to get approval for a protocol as it did to develop the product. These are the different timeframes that we’re dealing with.
After the product is developed, it’s never done. There’s new features functionality, A/B testing, changing this, changing that, which you don’t ever do with a drug. There’s this agility required for software that just isn’t baked into the processes of a big pharma company.
What we have seen with our pharma clients is that they prefer to have us do all sorts of things that they don’t want to be involved in because they know they’re just going to slow it down, complicate it, and maybe kill it. They like the fact that we can be at arm’s length as a vendor, as a partner, to do this. Because if we get too much underneath the tent, then we get caught up in all of their processes. We’re not talking about quality and safety issues, we’re talking about the long lead times that you have for a drug, which are baked into the long lead times for everything they do. They’ve got a decade to develop something before they bring it to market. So that’s part of the challenge that we have with them, being able to remain nimble and move it forward.
Now the issue is– and your question alluded to this– is our exit to sell to a pharma company? Some people have said pharma was small molecule, and they didn’t get into big molecule, and when that was proven to be successful, they acquired it. Then gene therapy came on, they didn’t get into gene therapy, but when gene therapies were proven to be successful, they acquired it. So won’t digital be the same thing? They won’t get into it initially, but others will make it big and successful, and then they’ll acquire it? Maybe, but gene therapies, small molecule, large molecule–all of them have the same 10-year lead time. It’s still a biological process and product from that perspective, whereas digital is not. So I’m skeptical that they will be able to adapt in such a way that they can just acquire something and do it.
29:20 Eugene Borukhovich
We’re very much on the same page. I was in a session around the forecast for 2021, and of course I got asked the question about pharma and when they will change their view on digital and digital therapeutics. My question is, why do they need to? There are plenty of modalities that they are comfortable with, and digital outside of their existing value chain is an add on. It’s a fascinating discussion. We’ll see where and how that goes. You touched on pharma wanting validation; you have to go through even further validation and clinical trials, with and without a pill. Can you talk a little bit about how you guys were thinking about that journey?
30:23 Chris Wasden
Long before we planned on having pharma as our customers and the FDA as a regulator, we believed in having strong clinical evidence of our efficacy and safety. We designed a randomized control trial with a placebo control. We’re one of the only companies out there– in fact, I would argue we are the only digital therapeutic company out there that has a legitimate placebo-controlled RCT that’s ever been done. You’ll see some they claim they have a placebo, but it’s really not a placebo in the sense that it looks and feels like the product that’s being compared to.
We do a placebo control where the placebo looks and feels like Happify. If you just play with it for a few minutes, you don’t even know the difference between the two. It’s only when you go in and get involved in the actual interventions that you can tell the difference. The difference is that the placebo has quizzes, polls, and games that are more psychoeducation-oriented, whereas the product has the active ingredient, which is the CBT mindfulness behavioral interventions that have the mechanism of action.
We did these trials before we had pharma customers, and we were able to show that patients that used our product versus the placebo, over eight weeks, ended up outperforming the placebo by over two times. They ended up having 25% to 30% reduction in symptoms of anxiety and depression, which are levels similar to what you see in an SSRI or SNRI clinical trial. We were able to show very strong clinical evidence, and we believe that that was important for our health plans, employers, and it’s important for the patient, too (although the patients are more forgiving, if you will; as long as they think it works, they’ll use it, regardless of public reviews). Then we had our clinical trials published in peer reviewed journals.
Now, while I would argue that this is more robust than what you’re going to see in most other companies, it’s still not enough for the FDA. The FDA has a higher standard with regards to clinical involvement in the product, and then a clinical management of the patient that is on the product, and things like that. All of those things add exponentially more costs onto a clinical trial than what we’ve done before. But we’re in the process of doing those as well, because that’s what the market requires.
The payers have to appreciate that from a reimbursement perspective as well, because if I’m going to have to incur millions and millions of dollars on clinical validation of the product, go through all the millions of dollars of cost for quality management systems, and have to provide other sorts of evidence, then they’re going to have to pay something more than for a product that doesn’t require all of that.
33:38 Eugene Borukhovich
I remember sitting down with Ofer in New York, and we were talking about Anna– I think that’s the name of your AI. I’m curious– where has your thinking evolved around the role of the doctors, nurses, and even health coaches in this? Ultimately, we all need a nudge with another human being.
34:13 Chris Wasden
Let’s look at what they currently do and the constraints associated with that. Then we can talk about Anna and how she fits into that. So if you are a patient with a mental health problem, and it’s already been diagnosed, and you’re being treated, normally what happens is you go to your psychiatrist every couple months for med management. Then you go to your psychologist, maybe once a month, for some sort of therapy, whether it be CBT, or talk therapy, or whatever it might be. But you have that level of frequency. So a doctor every few months, a therapist maybe every month, maybe every other week– but generally not every week.
But the problem is your mental health issues don’t only occur every couple months or every other week. Mental health issues occur all the time and can get pretty severe. Also, the commitment required to go visit your doctor or your therapist is pretty substantial, and it’s very expensive.
Anna is a therapist, call her a “coach,” in your pocket, that is able to be there with you 24/7, 365, to provide therapeutic interventions that can help you with whatever your problem is. So people need these bitesize, five- to 15-minute interventions that they can do, on their time schedule, anytime, anywhere, to help them.
When you also look at what we’re trying to do, which is change behavior by creating new habits, you don’t create a habit by seeing a doctor every other month. You don’t create a habit by seeing a therapist once a month. You create a habit by doing something every day. We’re enabling people to use something in a way and frequency that enables new behaviors to occur.
If we look at most mental health, it occurs because of stressors that come into your life, whether they be physical (such as lack of sleep, lack of exercise, poor diet) or psychological (negative thoughts, lack of control, comparison of you to other people). We’re helping people understand the nature of their stressors in their lives and giving them management tools to better manage and regulate those stressors, so that they don’t become toxic stress and chronic stress that leads to depression, anxiety, and other disorders.
36:43 Eugene Borukhovich
So speaking of behaviors, we started with you and how you got into the DTx industry. I want to end with you. What gets you up in the morning, and what is your why?
36:56 Chris Wasden
I’ve been involved in 10 different start-ups over my career. Some of these start-ups I started myself in my garage, and I was the founder and the CEO. Others have been part of larger organizations, so I’ve had a lot of support resources and wasn’t all by myself. This experience with Happify is the capstone experience of my professional career. I have the support and resources have a broader organization, of a product that’s been vetted and validated over long periods of time, but I also have the piece of it that I can lead and direct in a meaningful way.
One of the loneliest jobs in the entire world is to be the founder and CEO of a start-up. All this pressure is on you; you’ve got to raise the money, everyone’s income, and their family’s life is dependent on you. I don’t have all that pressure here, because I have that to be shared with other people. And we have something that we know works. It’s not a start-up where you hope it works, and you are trying to get to those proof points– we know it works.
The real challenge we have is, what are the business models that are going to be most effective and bringing this thing we know works to the millions of people who need it? I happen to have a family– and I don’t know if my family’s normal or not– that has a lot of mental health challenges. I have a daughter and a daughter-in-law who are bipolar, I have a sister-in-law who’s bipolar that’s written a book about it, called An Impossible Life. I have kids that struggle with anxiety, I have kids that struggle with depression. So I am in the thick of this; I’m in the deep end of the pool with my family every day.
We have a product that helps those people in a meaningful way and can help millions of people because it’s infinitely scalable. We see this great opportunity to bring what we’ve got to lots of different patient populations to solve real problems that they have every day.
39:04 Eugene Borukhovich
Amazing. Part of the equation is gratitude. I want to thank you for giving the time and educating our listeners. So thank you very much, Chris.
39:17 Chris Wasden
Thank you, I enjoyed it.
39:20 Eugene Borukhovich
Thanks so much for tuning into the Digital Therapeutics Edition of Digital Health Today, a production of Mission Based Media. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to this podcast on your favorite podcast player, so you’re then automatically notified when we post our upcoming episodes, where I speak with dozens of leaders and trailblazers who are forging the path for digital therapeutics. If you’d like to learn more about YourCoach Health, or Brian Dolan’s Exits & Outcomes, you can always find the links to this and more in the show notes for this episode. You can connect with me personally on Twitter @HealthEugene, or follow my journey of writing my first book, Hard Pill to Swallow at firstname.lastname@example.org. I’m Eugene Borukhovich; catch you next time.