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Ep02: Start here: What are Digital Therapeutics and How Has the Industry Evolved?

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DOCSF 2021

 Transcript:

Eugene Borukhovich 0:03
Welcome to Digital Therapeutics Edition of Digital Health Today, and I’m your host, Eugene Borukhovich. I met Brian Dolan during his days at MobiHealthNews. So when he started Exits & Outcomes, it was absolutely logical to follow his new venture closely, and ultimately, I became a subscriber.

Eugene Borukhovich 0:22
As a fanboy of Exits & Outcomes, I reached out to Brian to see if he’d be willing to be a sparring partner on this podcast series, where his research is available, I’d rely on it during my discussions? And we also agreed to always have a journalist driven question from him for all of our guests. He graciously agreed, and I am super excited to kick off this limited series with none other than Brian Dolan, who I call the Digital Health Detective.

Eugene Borukhovich 0:49
Brian, why don’t you introduce yourself and tell our audience who you are and what you’re all about?

Brian Dolan 0:54
Thanks, Eugene. Yeah. So my name is Brian Dolan. I’m a longtime journalist. I think most people probably remember me from my time at MobiHealthNews, which is one of the early digital health publications in the space. I started that up with my college roommate, actually, Joe Malley, back in 2008. So we were a couple years out of school, and had this idea kind of where the telecom industry really meets healthcare. And so it was very mobile health focused, that’s hence the name, which remains to this day, which I think is pretty amazing, it’s still called MobiHealthNews.

Brian Dolan 1:25
But back then it was really more about what smartphones and apps were doing in healthcare, and we really built out the publication from there into the wider world of digital health. So yeah, that was about seven or eight years. In 2015, we sold MobiHealthNews to HIMSS, so I was at HIMSS, for a little bit. And then, just about a year and a half to two years ago, I started a new venture called Exits & Outcomes. So that’s what I’m doing right now. And that’s more of a market research, insights-focused, media startup.

Brian Dolan 1:54
And I’ve got three newsletters that go out on different days of the week, and an increasing number of long form reports about a dozen of them today that really dig into typically individual companies and kind of their strategy, some of their financial metrics, if I can figure them out and yeah, other kind of investigative journalism about things in digital health.

Eugene Borukhovich 2:15
Fantastic. So maybe just a few comments on MobiHealth. I remember the first time I subscribed and started reading and indeed, actually, if you think about it, not that much changed from, everybody’s still calling apps. Right? And the second piece of this, and maybe you can tell us a little bit more about the three part newsletter because I’m an avid reader, and actually a subscriber as well, just the three pieces to it, if you can just dive a little bit deeper into that.

Brian Dolan 2:40
Yeah, sure. So I started out with just one weekly newsletter that goes out on Fridays, and that’s really focused on pharma and digital health, but I think even more specifically, digital therapeutics, and especially within that, I think prescription digital therapeutics. So really digital therapeutic companies and products that are trying to replicate the pharma go to market, and that’s really where I think Exits & Outcomes is kind of built most of its following.

Brian Dolan 3:06
And of course, as things started to get increasingly interesting with companies like Livongo and Teladoc, and I think it was probably Livongo going public, it started to push me a little more to dig into that side of the industry. So I launched another newsletter, it’s every other Wednesday, and that’s focused on companies that distribute via enrollment. So typically, this is a company that’s selling into self-insured employers in the States, or working directly with health insurance companies.

Brian Dolan 3:33
And I think what I find is I kind of look at those two different worlds of enrollment focus-digital health and prescription digital therapeutics, I mean, it’s a very different model. And the companies in each of those categories have very different challenges. So to me, it makes sense to break them out and to write about them as a group, as opposed to just the wider world of digital health, which is what we did at MobiHealthNews.

Brian Dolan 3:55
And then yeah, so the third one is a Monday newsletter, which is free, anyone can sign up for that. And that’s mostly a funding focus newsletter, so anything in health tech, even broader than digital health. And I’m really trying to put together the most comprehensive list of fundings each week, and I typically get about 25-26 so much more than you’ll see elsewhere. And that’s just a lot of legwork digging through the SEC filings in the US and elsewhere. So yeah, that’s the mix. It’s really those three.

Eugene Borukhovich 4:21
Amazing. Better you than me doing this and keeping us all informed. Let’s dive deeper. You kind of touched on PDT and enrollment. But let’s step back a little bit even further. When did you start covering DTx and maybe, as you started covering, I’m sure you dug in with your journalistic capabilities, unlike mine into what the hell is digital therapeutics, again, just from a timing perspective and a little bit of the history?

Brian Dolan 4:48
Yeah, so that’s a lot there, is probably three or four questions. I would say we started covering digital therapeutics as we know it today at MobiHealthNews from day one. I did write about this industry a little bit in a prior job when I was writing more broadly about the mobile industry, there were some companies doing things in healthcare. But I would say back then, it was more technical health services, not so much digital therapeutics.

Brian Dolan 5:10
But I think day one at Mobi, week or week two, we already had written about a pioneering company called WellDoc, which I think many people would credit as the original digital therapeutic company. And they were the first prescription digital therapeutic or digital health program for diabetes management. So they led the way, I think they really did pave a lot of what we’re seeing today. And if you talk to some of the companies that are PDT, self-described as PDT’s today, they’ll tell you Welldoc was an inspiration at some level. So yeah, that was back 2008-2009.

Brian Dolan 5:41
In terms of what is the definition? This is a sticky question. I think of these things, I try to have a pretty fluid mindset about it, because it’s always changing. And definitions for industry terms, industry jargon, it’s really about what is the consensus view or something approaching a consensus view. So it doesn’t really matter if I have a better definition, I think, than someone else. If nobody knows that, or thinks of it that way, it’s not helpful.

Brian Dolan 6:05
And so I think the definition that is emerging is the one that’s coming out of the digital therapeutics alliance, I think they really are building a consensus around what a digital therapeutic is. So that’s where it’s at today. I think, though, for the last 15-20 years, this term has had different meanings. And if you dig into the USPTO patent database, and you look for this term, you’ll see mentions of it, from medical imaging companies, it’s actually a term of art when it comes to like diagnostic medical imaging, and this is way over my head. But they talk about a digital therapeutic as being some part of the process for making diagnoses based on images. So I couldn’t tell you what piece of that is a digital therapeutic but that’s out there.

Brian Dolan 6:46
So I think if you ask somebody in the medical imaging industry 15 years ago, they would be able to tell you what it was. And then if you fast forward, kind of, that’s turn of the century, that’s like 2000-2002, you fast forward more to like 2008-2009, I think there starts to be more mentions of it as digital therapeutic massage, this is like just the onset of more digital consumer products. So that’s kind of where the term starts to live.

Brian Dolan 7:11
And it really wasn’t until, I think, the late oddies, you know, 2010, 2012, 13,14, that it starts to take on the meaning that we know today. And it’s really a credit, I think the earliest mentions of digital therapeutics, as we know them today was a combination, sort of, I think of it as almost like the telephone was invented by two people. At the same time, I think, you know, Sean Duffy at Omada Health coined the term rather famously, as part of one of their fundraisers at Omada. I think Andreessen Horowitz helped promote that, they were part of that round. So they helped drive the term at the time to more public acknowledgement.

Brian Dolan 7:49
And then sort of I think more quietly, just because they were lesser known Click Therapeutics, they declined, I think, they was around the same time that they were using the term as well and even trademarked it, which I find to be amazing, but they had different definitions. And there’s kind of some ironic things about that we could get into maybe. But I think Click Therapeutics remains a prescription digital therapeutics company. And so, they’re more broad view of a digital therapeutic, as software for treatment, is sort of how I think it’s, it’s probably the simplest way to explain it today.

Brian Dolan 8:21
But at the same time, Omada Health has really started to move away from the term. And I think there are parts of the Omada offering that you could still say are digital therapeutic, but they’re becoming more of a virtual care company. And some of these companies are evolving away from it and becoming more human powered and looking more like a virtual care provider and less like, an automaton a digital therapeutic is. In my view, typically, less humans are involved. So that’s a long-winded answer to a complicated question there.

Eugene Borukhovich 8:52
No. Listen, I absolutely love it. And I think since we’re on that topic around, you kind of kicked it off with prescription digital therapeutic versus enrollment model, right? But also, I kind of just joke around a bit, it’s something like Omada is becoming kind of disease management 2.0 versus a prescription digital therapeutics. So let me hear a little bit of your thoughts and how, in your mind, I think it’s pretty clear already, as we’ve been talking, how you dividing this up, but ultimately, obviously for the patient. So let’s dive into PDT disease management 2.0 and any other sub groups that you see circling around.

Brian Dolan 9:31
Yeah. So I think to really understand it, you need to come at it from different lenses. So the one that I settled on for my business, for my publication is the distribution method. So it’s the prescription pad for PDTs versus for what I consider enrollment-focused companies. And it just, if you start there, if you take the distribution method as your organizing characteristic, it all kind of falls into place. There’s always going to be some variants within those two groups. But to me, those businesses are all closer to each other than other categories.

Brian Dolan 10:03
And I think today, the way that digital therapeutics, I think, distinguish themselves from the pack, it’s more about efficacy. Like do you have evidence that your intervention is positively affecting patient’s quality of life and driving positive patient outcomes? That seems to be where the definition is hanging its hat today. It’s like there’s X 100,000 number of health apps out there. We are not those. We are something different. A digital therapeutic actually helps patients and we prove it.

Brian Dolan 10:31
And I think where that breaks down, and that’s a great organizing principle. I think it’s helping to sort of change the discussion, digital health away from one that’s the Wild West for 15 years to like, okay, let’s focus on interventions that have evidence. But again, nobody’s policing that evidence. I think some of the companies that are the highest profile digital therapeutics companies might have evidence that is now being called into question. So it’s a good start, but if you really want to dig in and understand the space, there’s not enough analysis of the evidence that’s out there, to use that as a holy organizing principle, say, okay, this, this is a company that we should consider therapeutic or not.

Brian Dolan 11:11
So I think you’re right, that disease management is a long standing category. And I think the virtual versions of that, the companies that fit into that world, are going to continue to be in that category. I think, long-term, we’re not going to think of them as digital therapeutics. I think they are sort of very innovative, but they’re building on a category that existed. And I think a lot of prescription digital therapeutics companies, take Achille interactive lab, as an example, they are creating a new category that didn’t really exist before. It’s very drug like, but you wouldn’t call that disease management. It is therapeutic. It’s software as treatment. It’s very different. You play this game, and it helps with some of your cognitive issues.

Brian Dolan 11:52
I mean, that didn’t exist before and so I think that’s where the category, the definition will evolve into that very specific group of companies that are treating people. And that’s very different from diabetes management, which we’ve had for many years. And so since there is an existing category for that, I that they’re going to be lumped into it eventually.

Brian Dolan 11:42
So yeah, that’s kind of where my head is that when you start to look at it on the product side, and the claim side, and less on the distribution side. It’s sort of like what is truly novel here? And the PDT category, especially as it relates, and it typically does to sort of the neurology side of things. That to me is the emerging category, and the one that will win out, as whatever we end up calling it, prescription digital therapeutics is my vote. But I think that will remain as a category for a fair number of years, a decade or so.

Eugene Borukhovich 12:36
So before we jump into kind of where do you see the future is, which sounds like you already hinted at this a little bit. But I’m going to rewind back again, and you mentioned Welldoc and diabetes, can you talk to our listeners a little bit from a therapeutic area perspective, kind of where it started, where it’s been going? And I think the third part is, where do you see more activity coming as far as therapeutic areas are concerned?

Brian Dolan 13:00
Yeah. No, that’s a great question. I think I probably don’t have too much insight here. I think a lot of this is probably pretty obvious. But I think digital health in general really has long been focused on cardio metabolic therapeutic areas: diabetes, cardiovascular, obesity, COPD, asthma is sort of part of that. And I think those areas were kind of the focus for many years. And then I think there was a period not too long ago, maybe three years ago, where behavioral health really became a massive focus. A lot of these companies started adding in those sorts of TAs or acquiring companies in that space, partly in recognition that mental health cuts across everything, and is an important piece of it.

Brian Dolan 13:39
And I think that also ended up being an insight for this new group of PDT companies, because most of them are focused on a mental health related therapeutic area, but for a specific population, which sometimes is the population with one of those cardio metabolic chronic issues…

Eugene Borukhovich 13:00
Comorbidities, right, they exist?

Brian Dolan 13:59
Yeah, comorbidities. So you know, it’s like anxiety, treating the anxiety for people who have cancer. I mean, it is a cancer focused digital therapeutic company, but they’re really only tackling the mental health aspects of it. So I think that’s the evolution that I’ve seen. I think we’re going to push more and more into the mental health side of things and kind of carving it out for more and more specific patient populations that seems to be where it’s going the most.

Brian Dolan 14:25
If you look at the pipelines of these digital therapeutics companies, which is really fascinating, something that I track, that’s unusual, like no other digital health company prior to this category would say, here’s the six products we have that we’re working on, which maybe that’s all vaporware, but it’s still really interesting to publish a roadmap. It’s a real pharma biotech thing to do. Tech companies never do that. So that gives you some insight as to what might be coming, and yeah, I mean, it kind of tracks with what I just said. There’s not a whole lot of surprises there. Like I don’t see any brand new emerging therapeutic areas that are suddenly going to pop up in the next five years, but it’s moving more and more and deeper into mental health.

Eugene Borukhovich 15:01
And since we’re talking about the pipeline, and again, as a subscriber, I always checking the pipeline, I mean, it’s super interesting and what…

Brian Dolan 15:09
I should update it more. Yeah.

Eugene Borukhovich 15:10
Yeah, please do. And you started actually, should we rewind back to the discussion, you kind of said, what PDT is you looking at it as replicating the pharma model, right? And last November, inspired by many discussions, I kind of said, well, in theory, the DTx companies, the ongoing definition of it knows much more about the end consumer than the typical pharma companies and they actually building experiences around it.

Eugene Borukhovich 15:36
So my post was, is it the DTx companies surrounded by a consumer like experience going to swallow the pill? Or are the pharma companies going to swallow a DTx company just from a pure investment and purchasing power perspective? I’ve also been joking around, it’s a little bit of a frenemy kind of relationship between the two, especially as the DTx companies are growing. Where’s your head on where pharma stands on this, and of course, it will vary by company, but just as a general?

Brian Dolan 16:04
Yeah, it’s a big question. I probably can’t answer that one comprehensively. But there’s a couple things that I think have sort of come out in the last year plus that, I would say, if you asked me or anyone in this space, a year and a half ago, you’d hear stronger opinions about the need for a pharma of partner to help drive sales. I think that’s a big challenge for these digital therapeutics companies, how are they actually going to sell this into providers and payers, I mean, that’s a big lift. So I think there was thinking early on maybe even two years ago that of course, that’s going to be a pharma salesforce, so you need that partner to do it.

Brian Dolan 16:36
And then when you start to see some of the unraveling of those partnerships at the end of 2019, there’s a little bit of a change of direction for the industry and thinking like, oh, we don’t need pharma for that, we can build our own sales channel, and we can maybe take advantage of newer technologies to drive distribution. So even though it’s prescription, maybe we can pair it with a Teladoc like model and start prescribing this via virtual visits, so we start to see that pair therapeutics and their insomnia, PDT somrus.

Brian Dolan 17:02
So some of that you can kind of see coming is that sales transition happened last year. I started speculating about that, thanks to conversations with others in the industry that that was likely to happen, and I was still surprised it happened so quickly with somrus. But the pharma role here is varied. I think a lot of what we’re seeing today, it’s more research partner, helping them develop these and like bringing the clinical expertise from the therapeutic areas that they know better, probably than anyone working in PDT. So that’s probably the main role. I think it’s less now on the sales side, we’ll probably still see some of that, but that’s not going to be the typical model.

Brian Dolan 17:39
And for me the question, as I look at these companies that have multiple partners within multiple pharmaceutical companies, I really wonder what that does to their exit strategy. If you really are distributed across, nobody has five or six partners that I know of, but even just a couple. What happens in five years, when it’s time to get acquired, and one of them buys you, what does that relationship look like with the remaining customers? Do you just discount that revenue? Does that new owner start to work with their competition on these?

Brian Dolan 17:55
So there’s precedent there, I’m guessing in the pharma world, but it’s still, again, sort of an unusual piece of this that I didn’t cover in my old days, just covering digital health more broadly. So it seems like you need to be careful about how you work with pharma now. And there’s beginning to be a number of case studies that are worth looking at to see maybe not how not to do it.

Eugene Borukhovich 18:31
Yeah, I mean, I guess, while not pretty distant, but I guess you could look at PBM model, right, where pharma was either acquiring or heavily investing, and then that became a conflict of interest at some point, right just from influence perspective. So we may or may not see something like that in the DTx space.

Eugene Borukhovich 18:51
So we touched on a little bit on the distribution channel and pharma, so let’s kind of keep with. Because, from a business of DTx, right, I mean, we’ve seen, Click Therapeutics do a large 500 million deal with BI. I mean, you know them and tracking them much better than I am. Let’s talk a little bit about the business and some of the investments. So maybe we start with the investment since you started tracking them in multiple numbers, and then switch over to how are these companies making money and getting priced?

Brian Dolan 19:22
Yeah, so some of this stuff, I’m less comfortable kind of riffing off the cuff on. Yeah, I’m used to writing more so than kind of speaking. But yeah, on the investment side, I track it pretty broadly. So I’m looking at in my free newsletter, it’s not just digital therapeutics. So I don’t know if I have too much to say about PDT as a category as it relates to investment, but certainly, there’s a ton of investment right now.

Brian Dolan 19:22
I think some of the companies that are further along, there’s some signs that there’s been a little bit of a slowdown on an individual basis. Some of them have had a little bit of challenge raising money, probably pre pandemic, and then you start to see sort of alternative financing coming in. So that’s a bit of a sign. I think companies you pointed to Click, I think that’s a good example. They just raised 30 million, I think, this past week, so they’re kind of chugging along, they hadn’t raised since mid-2018. So that’s a good amount of time. And yeah, I think some of these deals that they’ve announced, they’ve been able to put a price tag on them, which I think was confusing to a lot of people covering digital health, because that’s not a common practice to say, oh, this was potentially a $300 million deal, or this is a potentially $500 million deal when it’s all said and done.

Brian Dolan 19:22
But of course, if you read that carefully, and you’re used to these kinds of agreements almost all of that is very much still to come and may never materialized. So, yeah, I think early on, I was kind of giving Click Therapeutics a hard time about, they were getting listed as unicorn status and some of these investor lists, people thought the $300 million figure was actually a VC that they had raised or strategic round that they had raised from some of these pharma companies when in fact, they at that time, it only raised maybe 10 to 20 million total. So…

Brian Dolan 20:29
But you know, it’s interesting, I’ll just interject here that even some of those deals, so like the Click deal with BI (Boehringer Ingelheim) is also starting to almost like replicate the pharma BD&L, the molecular BD&L deals, right, structures?

Brian Dolan 21:12
Which is why I think they take a more pharma-like strategy when it comes to their PR and announcing these sorts of financial numbers. But it’s just kind of to me, as someone who’s written about digital health for so long, some of these pharma-like practices kind of creeping more into digital health.

Brian Dolan 21:26
It’s sort of confusing, I think, for people, like me, other journalists that aren’t used to covering pharma to see some of these numbers and like, you know what, how to take them in. Yeah, I think Click’s a great example of a company that’s very pharma-like in a lot of what they do. So they’re definitely one to watch. I’m curious to see what they do with this latest funding round. It seems like they’re set to have a big year next year. So I’m curious to see some of their stuff come to market and more of their studies get published.

Eugene Borukhovich 21:51
You know, you kind of alluded to, we keep talking about digital technology, where do you see the role, right? Because I think part of the series, I am going to talk to real patients and doctors and the impact of these digital therapeutics to individuals. Where do you see a role of human being in this and this goes along doctor prescribing it nurse and even health coaches as part of the umbrella of human beings?

Brian Dolan 22:18
I think that to get specific, if we’re talking about prescription digital therapeutics, as the name implies, these need to be prescribed. So I think, apart from the patient, the key human involved in getting these to market is the prescriber. And the thinking for a lot of these companies early on was, well, how does most medicine get practice today? How to most interventions get into the hands of the patient? It’s via the prescription pad. And so they’re absolutely a key constituent for this particular model. You need to convince them to do it. You need to get the word out that your product exists. You need to get into formularies. So a lot of the go-to market is about the physician.

Brian Dolan 22:53
But for those products, I think, once it’s been prescribed, it’s going to change company to company. But for the most part, I think the idea with a prescription digital therapeutic is that the role of humans after that is lessened, it’s now like a drug. It’s in some way you take it, it influences you, it changes your behavior, it treats you via software, and apart from all the work that patients do not in any way to undermine or lessen that amount of work, I think it’s really up to the patient at that point and this piece of software to make it happen.

Brian Dolan 23:26
And I think in other categories, especially, disease management, digital therapeutics that kind of have a manage claim when they get regulated. I mean, those I think often do have much more of a human element involved, especially coaching. And so for that category, I think it’s much more rare to not have a coaching element or provider element as part of the loop. It’s sort of remote patient monitoring meets behavior change, and all that. I mean, humans have a ton of a role to play there.

Brian Dolan 23:54
So I think, very few companies are trying to keep them out of the loop. And when they do, it’s really a scale story. They think, alright, if I can just make this less about humans, then we can get to many more patients. So sometimes that strategy has a moral compass to it, and other times, it’s really just about making more money more quickly, and it’s probably not a good thing. And we probably would see better outcomes if coaches were involved or providers were involved. So, there’s a balance there, and you got a case by case kind of really dig in to see what’s really going on.

Brian Dolan 24:21
But companies like Lark, I think are in that category where they’re doing less with humans, not that they’re not involved, but that’s sort of their strategy. I think, companies like Big Health with Sleepio and Daylight. They definitely have more of a software-focus less humans involved approach. And I think there’s a place for that. And even among these companies, both of which on the enrollment side of things, I think they are, especially Big Health is sort of an outlier. I think most companies do have coaches or providers in the loop and they don’t so much. So sort of the exception that proves the rule, you know.

Eugene Borukhovich 24:58
Yeah, I mean, I think it’ll be interesting to see also by the therapeutic area, right? And back to this, I hate the word adherence, but are you adhering to the tool or the digital therapeutic? Are you using it? If you have insomnia and you’re just tired constantly, you’re going to want to use the product, right? And so again, depends on, I think, the therapeutic area in question as well.

Brian Dolan 25:21
Yeah.

Eugene Borukhovich 25:21
So, as you’ve been diving in, let’s step back to kind of your introduction, and maybe a little bit of what gets you up in the morning with or without the alarm as it relates to this as a journalist.

Brian Dolan 25:34
Yeah, man, we missed our alarm today. It was a bit of a rat race getting the kids on the bus. So, but what did get me out of bed, as always, I think for me, the kind of journalists that I am, I think, is more document based. I definitely love getting on the phone and talking to sources, that’s always a big part of it. But some journalists, I think that’s their primary or only source of information.

Brian Dolan 25:55
And I have found, I think, the kind of work that I do, the kind of writing that I do, lends itself to more digging into government databases, finding filings. And I think if you’re a subscriber, you know, I’m finding contracts, I’m pulling out pricing from those. There’s actually a ton of information on the internet right now, in plain sight, if you know where to look. And that’s a big part, I think of what’s driven my content strategy and Exit & Outcomes versus my prior work, which was typically more announcement-driven and interview-driven, which has its place. But what I’m trying to do is cut through the noise, get insights out there, and try to surface things that aren’t as well known about all these companies.

Brian Dolan 26:38
And that’s really what gets me up, and that keeps me going. It’s kind of the chase the hunt, like finding something. There’s something I think, very primordial about that and you find a, just an amazing piece of information buried somewhere. It’s like, oh, man, I just found the acquisition price, I just figured this out, they acquired this company based on some patent filing. That’s a good day for me, and those happen more and more. So that’s what keeps me going.

Brian Dolan 27:03
I’d say, maybe also, just from a kind of grander scheme of things, when I started out, I was writing about mobile content on early phones, pre-iPhone, it was how can the music labels figure out how to get people to listen to music on their phones, kind of the pre-iPod days? And how can the TV companies get some of their shows onto these tiny little screens? And so it was really fascinating, from a technological perspective like this, there’s bandwidth issues, there’s issues of the quality of the picture and all that. But it was not a great way to spend your day just sort of writing about entertainment and technology.

Brian Dolan 27:39
So after about three years of doing that, I saw that healthcare needed this same sort of digital transformation. I think everyone in this space knows this now. But so back in 2008, that’s why we started MobiHealthNews, as I thought it was inevitable that healthcare would eventually start to embrace some of this technology, and it needed it. And a big part of what drew me into that and away from sort of other parts of the tech world was just the need there and how much more impactful and meaningful that sort of transformation would be versus just all of us being able to watch Netflix on our iPhone. So I’m really happy that I made the switch into healthcare and away from music and entertainment technology, which I’m sure would have been fascinating, but not nearly as meaningful of a ride these last 15 years.

Eugene Borukhovich 28:22
Well, unless you’re applying it to music as medicine, right, and all those technologies. But maybe going to just go off the cuff and call you the Digital Health Detective from now. There you go.

Brian Dolan 28:35
Yeah. No, I’ll take that. I mean, it feels that way some days. Yeah. And it’s a lot of fun. And people seem to appreciate it. So it’s been great.

Eugene Borukhovich 28:44
Pleasure as always.

Brian Dolan 28:45
Thanks, Eugene.

Eugene Borukhovich 28:48
Thanks so much for tuning into Digital Therapeutics Edition of Digital Health Today, production of Mission Based Media. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to this podcast on your favorite podcast player so you’re then automatically notified when we post our upcoming episodes where I speak with dozens of leaders and trailblazers who are forging the path for digital therapeutics.

Eugene Borukhovich 29:09
If you’d like to learn more about your coach health, or Brian Dolan’s Exits & Outcomes, you can always find the links to this and more in the show notes for this episode. You can connect with me personally on twitter @HealthEugene, or follow my journey of writing my first book, Hard Pill To Swallow at hardpilltoswallow.substack.com. I’m Eugene Borukhovich and catch you next time.

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